Life in the IEP Tribe
Join us as we dive into the world of special education with two educators who have walked the same path as many of you. In addition to teaching in self-contained and collaborative settings, our hosts bring a unique perspective to the challenges and triumphs of raising a special needs child. From classroom strategies to heartfelt family moments, they offer practical advice, empathy, and a community of support. Discover how their personal experiences can shed light on your journey and gain valuable insights into navigating the complexities of special education both in and out of the classroom. Welcome to the tribe!
Life in the IEP Tribe
Transforming Education with Heather McMillan
Heather McMillan, a passionate special education teacher, joins us to share her journey from a scholarship recipient to a dedicated advocate for children with disabilities. Discover how Heather's unique approach to teaching emphasizes the balance between academic skills and adaptive life skills, fostering independence in her students. Through heartwarming stories and invaluable insights, Heather reveals how empathy and understanding can transform the educational experience for both students and their families.
We dive deep into Heather's transformative experiences, from serving as a personal care attendant to engaging with diverse families and students. Heather opens up about her evolving teaching philosophy, underscoring the importance of tailored education. Her stories highlight the power of collaboration between educators and parents, as she provides practical advice for navigating the special education system. Heather's heartfelt perspective challenges us to rethink traditional teaching methods and embrace a more inclusive approach.
As we explore the changing landscape of special education, Heather discusses the impact of legislative changes like the No Child Left Behind Act and shares strategies for promoting positive behavior in students with disabilities. By encouraging life skills alongside academics, Heather illustrates the value of framing tasks as practice for adulthood, while emphasizing the necessity of offering choices to empower students. This episode offers a compelling look at how educators can create a cooperative, self-aware learning environment where every student can flourish.
and we are back with another episode, another one. We're almost like I don't know like veterans at this.
Speaker 1:This is like whole episode number 12, um, you know, and it's been really cool. So our last episode we got to hang out and talk with a teacher that we got to spend some time with about about four years I think. We worked with her and and it was really cool to be able to catch up and talk about her perspective as as a general education teacher and bringing in students in her classroom and really pushing for inclusion and talking about the different benefits that she's seen in students being able to be a part of that. So that's my dog. So, ah, big deal, it'll be all right, that's Captain. He's the one that, never mind.
Speaker 1:We'll get into Captain's story some other time, but our guest this week is really really super special. So one of the things that Laura and I have been just so pleased with in our time here in Camden County and having a son that's been in the special education system is that he's never had a teacher that we thought, oh well, I guess they're all right, like we've loved every teacher. And just so happens that this evening we get to talk with miss heather mcmillan who, uh, was xander's teacher. I believe it was around like the kindergarten through second grade, was that right, miss mcmillan?
Speaker 3:I. I think that was right. The years start to. You know blur after so long. But yes, it was early elementary for sure, maybe even into third grade.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds about right, and I know that. I can remember sitting in one of those IEP meetings early on and just being so nervous and not understanding anything that was being talked about, and it was very beneficial for me to sit in these meetings that I didn't understand. But the teachers are always so great and they're willing to walk along with us and explain things to us, and so this evening we're talking, like I said, with Miss Heather McMillan. I'm so excited. I'm excited. Yes, that's right, you get the applause too. And I would also add this Laura and I both had the opportunity to sit in a workshop that you led. I believe it was the beginning of this year right, it was the beginning of this year and it was fantastic. I just want you to know that we walked out of that with a lot of great ideas, a lot of direction, and so, as parents and as fellow teachers, we really appreciate everything that you have done.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, I appreciate that and you know I just I don't do everything right. That's one of the first things I tell my parents when I meet new parents, when new students is, I'm not going to do everything right and we're not always going to agree, but I promise you that I have your child, my students' best interest at heart.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I can again, speaking from the side of a parent, I can, I can attest to that. So I also noticed, Ms McMillan, that you wrote a book and I got to tell you. So I was reading the book and as I'm going through it, I go Laura, Laura, listen, listen, listen, listen to what Ms McMillan said. We believe that we're moving in the right, because here's the thing you can read textbooks, you can write papers, but when you get in the classroom it's different.
Speaker 1:It is and to be able to see some of the things that you talk about in that book and us being able to connect with it and go okay, cool, we feel like we're heading in the right direction.
Speaker 3:Well, and I really wrote that book. It's kind of funny that you started this conversation the way that you did, because I really wrote that book out of a concern for parents who really were feeling overwhelmed. Walking into those IEP meetings, walking into daily life with a child with a disability, right, no one, especially our teachers we kind of sign up for this, right. We don't totally know what we're getting into, that's for sure. But you know we do it out of a desire to love kids, to help kids, and we choose to do it. But as a parent who suddenly finds yourself with a child with a disability, there are a few who adopt, but for the most part, you know, that's just kind of. You didn't choose it, it was something you were handed, and I often talk about that.
Speaker 3:No kid comes with a book, but especially a kid with a disability and parents who, you know, are suddenly having to figure out not only how to raise a kid but all of the methods that they were raised with, all of those things that you would typically use, suddenly aren't working. You know, and I often had parents say to me well, I don't understand why they behave in your class, but at home I'm really struggling. And I look at them and I say, because I have a master's degree, they're doing this. I don't say that to say that I'm special or better than you. I say that to say I've been taught how to do this.
Speaker 1:Right, you've done a ton of research? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And I have the experience right At this point. I've been doing this over 25 years now and so you know I've been doing this longer than now. The students that I'm teaching have been alive, so you know again, there's so much that comes. You know that schooling's great, but so much comes from experience. So really that's kind of where the heart of the book came from is wanting to give some parents just some quick and easy things to be able to jump off with that don't cost money, you don't have to be an expert to do, but they make a big impact and that's kind of you know where it came from.
Speaker 1:Well, and one of the things that you said that, one of the things you said in the book that that really stood out was the we typically parent the way that we were raised. Right, we're a reflection of our parents and when you add a student or a child with special needs, that kind of flips it even more.
Speaker 2:With special needs, that kind of flips it even more.
Speaker 1:So it's like the same thing, and I found that in our own home, the same ways that my parents raised me, those methods didn't necessarily work for Xander, like there had to be a different approach to that. So I want to ask you some questions, ms McMillan, I'm going to keep calling you that.
Speaker 1:Just call me Heather, gerald, just call me Heather, it doesn't feel right, all right. So, like you just said, you've been in this game for, you know, 25 years. I don't know many people that do anything for 25 years. So what was it that inspired you to become a special education teacher and then kind of to tag on onto that? How has your perspective on teaching evolved over the years?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, it's kind of funny. I always knew, from the time that I was young, that I wanted to be a teacher, not necessarily kids with special needs, but a teacher. So that's you know, since I was probably eight years old. But then, as I, you know, kind of thought some more and, to be honest with you, it's so funny how God works Right. To be honest with you, I decided to go into special ed because there were more scholarships for schooling and that kind of funny.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 3:Right, and so that, to be to be perfectly blunt and honest, that that had an impact on it, right, and I really thought, ok, I'm going to teach kids with learning disabilities kind of some mild impairment, maybe some dyslexia and then I got into my first job and the first job that I got was teaching kids with moderate severe disabilities, and it took me about six months to decide I love this, right, this is what I love. What I love, and I kind of, you know, when I think back to doing some of my practicums and such, I was always drawn to the students who needed a little bit more assistance, right, that was kind of always just where my heart was, and so that's really how it started. Also, when I was in college and this really plays a lot into where the book comes from and my understanding and empathy for parents is that I was a personal care attendant for a friend in college who had spinal muscular atrophy, which is a degenerative disease similar to MD, and so she was basically quadriplegic but she had, you know, cognitively, she had normal cognitive ability, she was going to school but needed full-time, round-the-clock care, and so that was my job in school, as well as going to school full-time and that really gave me a lot of understanding. And that really gave me a lot of understanding and from both a practical side of what I needed to do as a teacher, as well as some empathy and understanding of what goes into caring for someone 24 hours a day. So it's kind of a neat overlap, just something that God brought into my life to really prepare me for the things that I would do later and, as far as you know, things that have changed my perspective.
Speaker 3:You know, when I first started teaching I was young, I was not married, I didn't have kids. And you kind of go into it gung-ho and like enthusiastic and I'm going to save the world. And you know, I mean like enthusiastic and I'm going to save the world. And you know, I mean I knew I wasn't going to go and I knew I wasn't going to go in and suddenly cure all these kids with autism and, you know, chair kids with CP. I knew I wasn't going to do that but I was going to make a huge difference.
Speaker 3:And I'm not saying I haven't, but it's just kind of a little bit. It's a little bit different when you get in there and suddenly have a lot of kids and a lot of different things pulling at you right, different expectations. But as I once I had my own kids, really had got to know families better. You know that perspective of doing what the kids need, what's meaningful to the kids, despite what the standards say. You know finding ways to make those align and what's meaningful for one kid and what's meaningful for one family is not for another family.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's kind of. You know how that changed for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love hearing stories of how people got into teaching because some of them are fantastic. So I've never met anybody that said I knew I wanted to be a teacher when I was eight. Now my dad, who is a pastor here in this county, he knew when he was was it 13,? I think he says like he was going to be a pastor.
Speaker 1:Before that maybe Listen. I'm 47 years old and I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up, but I am enjoying what we're doing, and so you know Laura's story. We've shared it before in my stories. It's just neat to hear how people are drawn into the education system.
Speaker 3:Right, and it is all different and that perspective that we come in with really does color who we are as teachers.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, hey, tell me more about that.
Speaker 3:So when we come into it as a coming into it with all this background kind of things, it makes such a difference as far as you know, how do we approach it.
Speaker 3:Do we approach it strictly as let's sit down and let's learn this academic, or do we think more globally? For me, having that experience of being with an individual with a disability 24-7, I kind of lean more toward the functional skills that are necessary, right, Because I am a big believer because of some of that background, and if I don't teach you to do it for yourself now, I'm still going to be doing it for you when you're 25 or 30 or 35. Now, she physically couldn't do it, it could not do some of those things. It was always going to need that assistance. But at the same point, you know, what can I help someone to be able to do? Because I had to do a lot for her and so you know, including getting up in the middle of the night to turn her over. So you know I was here, I was not having full night's sleep, those kind of things. So I understanding that whatever I can teach you to do for yourself, right, then someone doesn't have to do it for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, like Laura is over here, she's ready to be your choir. She's like, yeah, and so, like Laura is over here, she's she's ready to be your choir. She's like, yes, she says a lot of the same things.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, and I tell the parents that we do. We expect a lot out of their students and we joke around. I said, well, we let the parents be the nice ones. And I said I'm the mean one and I make them do for themselves. But you know, not really being mean, but talk about how we can't enable them and because, like you said, if we continue to do it for them, they're just going to let us they're kids. What kid's not going to let you do something for them?
Speaker 3:Well, and now that I'm in, you know I spent 20 years doing elementary, everything from preschool to fifth grade, and now I'm in middle school doing sixth to eighth grade, and I talk a lot with my middle schoolers about, you know, asking them to do something hard and they're like that's hard. I don't want to do that. I get it Right, but we're practicing being adults and that's the phrase I use with it. This is your practice for being an adult. They all want to be an adult, right. They all want to be an adult. They all want to be in charge, right. I'm like I want you to be in charge too one day, but right now, we're going to practice doing that.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's fantastic, and it really kind of turns them around, you know, and kind of they're like huh, okay, and you know all the phrases out there, all the memes adulting's hard, that's right.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 3:Right, yes, and so even with my personal children, with my school children, you know practicing things like budgeting schoolchildren. You know practicing things like budgeting. In middle school and our adaptive curriculum class, we do a lot of things like cooking and doing laundry and mopping floors and all of those things as well, and they're like it's not just about academics, Because the other thing that we know is that the reason most kids with disabilities don't hold down a job is not because they don't have the academic skills, but it's because they don't have the social skills and the life skills they need to be successful.
Speaker 1:Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3:So it's all of those things together and that's where that finding that balance really comes in. And one of the things I've enjoyed about being in middle school is we know kids with disabilities are three to five years behind, like cognitively, socially, all that. So what I see being in middle school is suddenly they're ready for the academics that maybe they weren't ready for before because you know. But and I think that we as a society, we as a school system and I don't mean just Camden, I mean, you know, nationally yes, ma'am, we kind of had that backwards right. We're pushing academics in the early years and we're pushing social and adaptive skills in the later years. We kind of need to flip those right Because I can help you catch up on some of those academics. If you had the behavior and the adaptive skills you'd be able to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, and that's encouraging to us because we are at the elementary level and are seeing that. And then we get, you know, concerned because they're not academically moving where we feel like they should. But so that is encouraging to know that. You know, once they get up to your level a lot of times they have, you know they've matured and through some hard work they're ready to attend and ready to work and that there is more of a chance to catch up. That's encouraging it to us at our level for sure.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, and if they're coming to me at, say, 11 years old and they're five years behind, that puts them at six years old, right, and so what is a six year old ready to do? Learn to read, learn to do some math, you know? Suddenly they're ready. I mean, if we could go into a whole thing about how I think the regular ed system is pushing kids too young to do stuff they're not developmentally ready for as well.
Speaker 1:I don't know if we've got enough time for that because I know that's one.
Speaker 2:We would definitely be a part of that conversation and it might go till Sunday, definitely Getting back to your book a little bit and talking about this helping the kids do for themselves and what are some of the key strategies from your book that are proven to be most effective when you're supporting the parents of children with disabilities?
Speaker 3:Right? Well, one of the things is so simple, but it's so hard to train ourselves to do as adults, and that's to give kids choices. Right, they really. You get into this power struggle with kids because they want to be in charge, they want to be adults, and so when you're constantly telling a child no or you can't do that, then you get into this back and forth power struggle with them, whereas when you give them a choice, and sometimes the choice, it's about keeping our end in mind, right? What do you want?
Speaker 3:Well, I want you to be safe, ultimately, as a teacher, right, I have a student right now who, for whatever reason, has decided that standing in the chair is fun and I'm like, no, I mean okay, maybe, but it's not safe and we're not going to do it. So the choices are if I tell the child to sit down, she's going to yell and scream at me. I don't want to, I want to stand. If I say you have a choice, you can stand on the floor or sit in the chair, then she'll say okay and she'll get down and do one of those two and I still get what I want. What I want is you not stand in the chair because it's not safe, right, you know.
Speaker 3:And so, really, it's about framing choices the way that kids want. And, right, that doesn't cost any money, there's no supplies, but it's a mindset change. For us and that's one of the things I talk about in the book is teachers, is parents. You can't force a child to do something behaviorally. Right, you can make it worth a while to do it, but you can't force anybody to change their behavior, right, so the only person's behavior I can control is my own.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:And I say that a lot to my students In middle school, you know is that back and forth he's looking at me. Okay, I make him stop looking at me. I can't like, can't do it. But you can choose to turn around, you can choose to close your eyes, you can choose to do all of these other things because you're in control of you and, again, that's teaching them to take responsibility for themselves. So that's one of the big things. Another one is positive reinforcement and I know y'all use this all the time in your school and with your students and I hear so many times we don't want to be bribing kids. We're not bribing kids. So I mean, I love my job, I've done it for 25 years but if I didn't get a paycheck at the end of every month, Right.
Speaker 3:Then I probably wouldn't still be doing it Right. I mean, there are days that the only reason I show up for work is because I know at the end there's going to be a paycheck.
Speaker 3:I mean again, that's just being brutally honest, right, Right. But there are things we all get reinforced or rewarded for. The things that we do there are consequences, good and bad, Right, and that's that's a big thing to teach kids that it's your actions that have consequences. I didn't give you the grade I, you know I've got a student today. You know you, you made me move. Well, I gave you a warning. I said you either had to, you know, leave your hands off that child or I was going to move you and that was your choice Number one. I gave him a choice, right, and number two, when you chose to keep touching the child, then I followed through right, and there was a consequence, and the consequence of he had left his hands off of him would have been he got to stay there.
Speaker 3:Absolutely and that's a positive reinforcement. It's not always a candy or tangible or those kind of things. Again, doesn't cost any money. How many of our kids and I think that y'all can probably attest to this as well they want attention. Right, as parents, we're busy, right, I know my kids are almost fully grown now, but they still want attention and it's one of the most costly things that we have as adults. Right Is our time and our attention Right. And so many times any child, but especially a child with a disability, is going to doesn't really care, number one, if that attention is positive or negative, and they will do whatever it takes to get your attention Right. And so that attention is so rewarding for kids and, again, it doesn't cost a thing. But we have to be intentional.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know you talk about you're talking about this attention, and that you know that's across the board as far as these kids go. All kids want attention. Kids go, all kids want attention. However, what's even more I think plays into it even more with our students with disabilities is that there is a kind of a common slide to putting electronics in front of our kids, right? So, like you said earlier, we don't have a book to tell us how to raise our child with special needs, and so what we do is we try to do things to just keep them happy or keep them right, and so then we start giving them these things, but then, at the end of the day, it's not the iPad that they want, it's not, you know, the computer that they want, it's not the video game that they want. They want to know that they matter to somebody and they want that attention. Like you said, they'll do whatever they can to get it.
Speaker 1:Now let's move on. I have another question. Here we go Ready, are you nervous? No, good, no, ma'am, no, ma'am. That oh yeah, you're good. So what are, what are some of the most significant changes you've seen in the field of special education over the past two decades plus and how these changes impacted your teaching methods so one of the biggest things because, um, so I was teaching before.
Speaker 3:No Child Left Behind came through, right. So I was teaching back when we didn't do any testing with these kids with more significant disabilities. There wasn't a standardized testing. We taught, everything was very focused on those functional life skills, on those functional life skills, and not saying we didn't do academics, but we did. I'd say for most of us it was probably 80% life skills and 20% academics. But again, at that time I was teaching K through two. They weren't ready for academics, right.
Speaker 3:And so then suddenly, this no child left behind law comes down and says oh well, they need to be doing everything that that typical first grade student does. And, as teachers who were not so foreign to us, just didn't make sense. I'm like we're the ones in here with these kids. Every day you can show me how this is going to work Right. And so it was very, it was truly just world changing for us who were teaching these lower incidence kids, right. It just we're like what do we do with this? Well, I'll tell you. Well, there are definitely times and students that I'm like, yeah, we don't need to be doing this Right and we definitely don't need to be putting as high a stakes on these testings as we do.
Speaker 3:But there was some good that's come of that as well, because we were able to expose kids to things and some of these kids were ready man. They raised up to some of this stuff. So one of the biggest things that it did is change the focus of what I did from dysfunctional to more academic, and I had to learn to balance those two. Again, how do I make all of those things meaningful, right? So, for instance, now, as a middle school teacher, all of the middle school standards for ELA are about inferencing. That's a high level skill.
Speaker 1:Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3:Right, that takes a lot. But here's the thing. It's also important to life skills. Why? Because I don't know how you feel. Because I can't read your face. I can't inference how you feel or what you're thinking or what even cause an effect. What's going to happen when I hit Johnny over there, right? So all of those are life skills. So it's made me a better teacher in some ways, and that I had to figure out how do I take that, what seems to be a truly academic skill, and make it not just academic but also meaningful that word again, right. Make it meaningful for that child and that student. And so you have to get creative, but it can be done. So that's been a huge change. And that was many, many years ago, and I really just feel like, let's say, that was in 2001. So that's been 24 years ago, and I really just feel like in the last couple of years that I've really kind of gotten the hang of being able to balance those two.
Speaker 1:Oh, gotcha, yeah, and that's one of the things that Laura and I talk about on the regular, because you know and I know that you experienced this as well is that in that one classroom there's such a broad spectrum of needs right that the students have. And so one of the things that we've been trying to figure out and we would love to hear you address this, is how do you do that, how do you have a classroom that is full of all these different individual needs and how do you address those needs and give that child the best chance at moving forward and progressing?
Speaker 3:Well, the first thing to know is that you're not always going to perfectly balance those needs, right. That's just not possible. The second thing is to know that those needs for the individual and for the classroom change day to day. You know, and we forget that sometimes. You know so-and-so didn't sleep last night, so now his biggest need is to take a quick nap before we get to work. Or today I was hoping to go in and do some good academics, right? Well, I forgot the dental van was coming. So then you're pulling my kids out and you're pulling the parent with her.
Speaker 3:So, now I'm in the room with nine kids or eight kids, and she's got the one in the dental van. So we totally flipped and suddenly we were doing behavior, life skills, because they were fussing and fighting with each other. Right, because they were fussing and fighting with each other, they were. And so suddenly we put the academics away and we were focused on the need at the moment right, which was the behavior. But the other thing is to think about that balance, not in terms of a particular student or in terms of a day, but a little bit longer term right, in terms of a particular student, or in terms of a day, but a little bit longer term. Right, in terms of the week. So this week did I meet the needs of this child and this child and this child in some way? Right, because I think we'll kill ourselves if we try to meet everybody's needs every day to the fullest extent possible Right.
Speaker 3:And one more thing about that is the fact that when you have a child who is so disruptive behaviorally, for whatever reason, that sometimes we feel like I'm spending all the time with this one student trying to get this behavior under control. Or a new student walks into the room right, walks into your classroom because they just moved from Texas or wherever and suddenly it kind of flips your whole classroom on its head right, and so we have to spend a little bit of time extra time, with that student, trying to get some behaviors, trying to get to know the student. But we've got to remember that in case what's best for that student trying to get some behaviors, trying to get to know the student but we got to remember that what's best for that student ends up being what's best for the classroom and the students as a whole.
Speaker 1:That's a good point.
Speaker 3:Because when we have that student who walks into me as a sixth grader, I'm going to have that student for three years assumedly right, maybe four. That student for three years assumedly right, maybe four. And so if I can take the first six months and kind of deal with some of those behaviors and, you know, let that child know what my expectations in my classroom are, then the next two and a half years are a lot better and everyone is served a lot better. And I'll tell you, what I see is that I have a lot of eighth graders this year that are moving up and I'm getting a lot of sixth graders to replace them. And I'm like man, but I got these guys trained. I get to start over from scratch, but the maturity level and the independence that they show, and that is my reward.
Speaker 3:What is rewarding? And you know what? Some of them are doing things like perfect squares and doing some high level math stuff and high level reading. They're reading where they weren't reading before. They're inferencing, they're doing some of these things that they weren't doing before, but guess what? They're not doing them until eighth grade because it took some time to get there. And so looking, I really started looking at my classroom as that whole three year segment of time right and not this one little segment of time, and doing so has helped my instruction. It's helped them to be more successful and it's helped me not to be so frustrated when they don't get it the first time or the second time or the 20th time Right, and it's made a big difference there.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to call you Miss McMillan, because that's just what I do. We are coming towards the end of our time together, so there's a couple of things that I want to mention and get you to kind of answer some questions. As far as your book, it's called Ending the Power Struggle Five Strategies for Parents of Children with Disabilities, and where could somebody find that book?
Speaker 3:So it's on Amazon Just go to Amazon and look that up, and it's right there. You can order. It's available either in paperback or you can do a digital download.
Speaker 1:Excellent, and what's really cool is a lot of the things that you talked about using in your classrooms do transfer into the home and that these same practices parents can use in helping to raise their kids. But, Heather, I got one question for you that I didn't actually prepare for you, but I know that it's okay. I know that your faith is a very big part of your life and your family's life. I know you and Mark. I've known Mark for a long time as well. Can you tell me and the listener the difference that the Lord has made in your life when it comes to how you do your job as a special education teacher?
Speaker 3:So I believe for me and for many special ed teachers that I come across, it's a calling right. Everybody says to me how can you do this for 25 years? Right, it's hard, and I don't disagree, it's hard, but it's made such a difference because sometimes, honestly, when I can't figure out that kid and what to do with that kid, I found myself stopping praying about it. What do I need to do? Right, and that's huge, and it changes my perspective on why I do it Right. It's not just about the academics and even the making sure that they get you know some of those life skills. It's about loving them. These are kids and families that just need to be loved.
Speaker 3:Yes, ma'am, and that's really a big part of what I try to do.
Speaker 1:Well, and, like I said before, I'm here to say that you do it well. As fellow teachers, you're certainly someone that we look up to and that we learn from. And then, as parents of a student with special needs just the investment that you made in our own son's life we could never thank you enough for that.
Speaker 3:I love Sandron. I love doing my job. There are days that it's exhausting, but it's more than a job, it's truly a ministry.
Speaker 1:Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3:From the way I approach it.
Speaker 1:So yes, ma'am. Well, I appreciate that we're going to go ahead and wrap this thing up. Mrs Curtis, you got anything you want to say?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. I think y'all covered it, that was great, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:I felt like I was back in school. I'm just sitting listening. I should have been taking notes, but it's okay, I recorded it, so it's good.
Speaker 2:And you got the book. There you go, and I got the book.
Speaker 1:I got the book right here. I'm fantastic. I recommend it to anybody that either A has questions about how to raise their child with a disability, or even on the other side, if you know somebody that has a child with a disability that could use it, check it out and.
Speaker 3:I think even as a teacher, you know there are some good things in there. They apply to the classroom, because it's not that much different, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, it's really not, and that's why I was getting ready to say even for you know, teachers, new or veteran teachers, if you're at a point, you know, new teachers are always looking for something and veteran teachers are always looking for different things, that different ways. You may not have looked from perspective and so, yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 3:Our classroom is like a family.
Speaker 2:It becomes like a family.
Speaker 3:We keep those kids for so long. I mean good and bad parts of family, it's all together.
Speaker 2:And families don't always get along. That's what I've had to say Listen, we're a family, but families don't always get along. You just got to figure out how to get over it.
Speaker 1:That's right. Well, thank you. Thank you again, Heather. Thank you so much for your time. We are looking forward to more conversations in the future. All right, bye.