Life in the IEP Tribe
Join us as we dive into the world of special education with two educators who have walked the same path as many of you. In addition to teaching in self-contained and collaborative settings, our hosts bring a unique perspective to the challenges and triumphs of raising a special needs child. From classroom strategies to heartfelt family moments, they offer practical advice, empathy, and a community of support. Discover how their personal experiences can shed light on your journey and gain valuable insights into navigating the complexities of special education both in and out of the classroom. Welcome to the tribe!
Life in the IEP Tribe
The Village It Takes: Robin Curtis on Supporting Children with Autism
What happens when a grandmother recognizes the signs of autism in her grandchild before anyone else? Robin Curtis, a veteran educator and children's ministry leader, shares her powerful journey of supporting her grandson Xander through his autism diagnosis and development.
The conversation reveals the delicate balance of approaching parents with concerns about their child's development - a moment Robin describes as "one of the hardest conversations I've ever had." Her story illuminates how that difficult conversation sparked a transformative journey for her grandson and entire family.
Robin's professional background working with special needs children gives her unique insight into both sides of the special education equation. She highlights communication breakdowns between parents and teachers as one of the biggest challenges in supporting children effectively. "I don't think you can communicate too much," she emphasizes, noting how collaboration between home and school creates consistency that helps children thrive.
Perhaps most moving is Robin's account of Xander's remarkable progress - from a child who wouldn't eat, make eye contact, or sit still to a young man who now does his own laundry, independently attends youth activities, and engages socially with peers. Her perspective on seeing beyond labels to understand the child's unique viewpoint offers practical wisdom for parents and educators alike.
Throughout the conversation, Robin weaves in her faith perspective, speaking to how understanding God's unconditional love shapes her approach to children with special needs. "Children are so special to Him," she explains, highlighting how this foundation of grace informs her interactions with young people.
Have you noticed concerning behaviors in a child you love? This episode provides compassionate guidance for having those difficult conversations and building the village of support every child needs to reach their full potential.
laura, yes, we got another episode and I'm super excited about this episode. So here's the thing this is our 17th episode since we started doing all of this and we've had a lot of fun. I mean, you and I have had some conversations by ourselves. We have invited other conversations, conversational lists, into the fold. Sure, did it communicate? I think it communicated. I think it'll work, um, and they've been really great, really great guests and some great conversations from. I mean, we've talked to teachers and we've talked to paras and we've talked to parents, but today we get the coolest one. It's my mom. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to have my mother with us today, because my mom has a really neat and unique perspective when it comes to things like conversations about IEPs and special needs, because she has she has served children and families in so many ways over the years that not only has she worked with students that have special needs, not only does she have friends that have kids that have special needs, but she's also Xander's grandma or Grammy.
Speaker 1:Grammy, make sure I say it right, and so she has again an awful lot to bring to this conversation, and so I think we should just go ahead and get started, all right, but before we do, you see what I do right there, there's like a fake out. I just want to say one quick thing, and then we're going to keep rolling with. This is that Laura and I have been having some conversations and discussions about setting up some special events for people who would want to be members, and we'll explain that more later on. But what I can say is be looking out for some really cool stuff. Like, we've got some ideas. Now we're not taking anybody to like Bermuda or anything like that, but yes, we have some other ideas. So now I'm going to stop running my mouth and I'm going to hand over the microphone to like my other favorite lady in the whole world, my wife, and go ahead, laura. Introduce my mom.
Speaker 2:Introdu mom introduce your mom. How am I supposed to introduce your mom? So, so, as you said, we have your mom. This is robin curtis, and, um, and uh, robin's had, uh, like you said, just a vast amount of experience and uh, working with the kids with special needs or families with who have children with special needs, and, other than being the best mother-in-law, she's just a, I mean, she's just, she has a wealth of information that she probably doesn't even know she has. So I think we'll just, you know, just jump right in. And so, robin, we talked about your titles that you've had, and it makes me think of the hat book. I know that's one of your and Jared's favorite books, the hat. So why don't you tell us some of the hats that you have worn, as when dealing with kids and others with special needs?
Speaker 3:Well, first I want to say thank you for asking me to do this, and I feel very honored when dealing with kids and others with special needs. Well, first I want to say thank you for asking me to do this and I feel very honored and kind of scared, but I will just jump right in and do my best, because I'm old. I've done quite a few things. Quite a few things, I think, probably going back to when Jared and Jonathan and Jessica were in school.
Speaker 3:I was in. They went to a private school and so to help pay the tuition, I worked in a classroom as a classroom monitor, and then I also I was the children's ministry director at the church, which through that I worked with a lot of families, and then I was a co-founder of a preschool. A friend of mine, god gave her the vision to start a preschool and asked me to come along for the ride me to come along for the ride. So I was involved in that. I worked in the Camden County school system for approximately four years. I worked in the SPED department for about three and a half years I think maybe four and then a half a year in a gen ed kindergarten class.
Speaker 2:And she was one of the best SPED parents that I've had, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We've got five fantastic sped pairs. I'm not taking away from anything then, but you know you're fantastic to work with.
Speaker 3:Until I ran her off and made her retire. I was that retirement age. You were my favorite teacher to work with.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that you didn't work with me, mom, because if so, that would have really hurt.
Speaker 3:Oh well.
Speaker 1:Oh well, she says oh well, oh well, so I didn't work with you. Oh well, she says oh well, oh well, I didn't work with you. Oh okay, so you did work with me and still picked Laura as your favorite.
Speaker 3:I didn't, I didn't work with you.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:I saw you in the lunchroom.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's true, and I was very impressed. Oh well, thank you. My mom says I'm great at lunch duty no both of you are.
Speaker 3:I'm so proud of both of you. I see how you work together and y'all are amazing. I'm so proud of you. You both are very gifted and you really love those kids and it is so evident.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:And we didn't have to pay her to say that. No, and I mean it evident, thank you, and we didn't have to pay her to say that.
Speaker 3:No, and I mean it with all my heart.
Speaker 1:So, mom, I know we've say mascot, but I feel bad saying that of this whole conversation because you know, outside of education and working in the school system, he's a huge part of our understanding on how children with special needs operate and things to look for and so on and so forth. But I remember a time, specifically before Xander was ever even diagnosed, and I remember you coming to me and saying you know, jared, I really think there's some concern here, some help that he may need, and really was instrumental in that initial push to get Xander help. Can you talk to us a little bit about that time and what you remember seeing?
Speaker 3:Sure, that was one of the hardest conversations I've ever had, especially when I saw how it affected you to hear that, that I felt like there was um a need in your child's life. And but I, he was. I think he was in preschool when I started. He wasn't. I guess he was about three when I just started noticing things like he wasn't um, he wasn't having eye contact. He was super, extremely, um, hyper, very hyper, um. Of course he wouldn't eat. That was. I can remember talking to dad about that and crying, saying how is he going to survive? He was licking the spices off of Doritos and drinking PediaSure, yeah, that was it.
Speaker 3:And I was just so concerned. I can remember his birthday, you know this. I'm not sure what year it was, but I can remember. You know how I'm thinking it must have been his first birthday, because we put the birthday cake on his tray and all the kids you know how usually not all the time, but most kids will just stick their hands in it and, you know just make a mess. Well, xander was different. Even then it might not have been his first birthday, but I can remember he didn't want anything to do it. He was almost like repulsed by the thought of putting his hands in that.
Speaker 3:You know I forgot about that putting his hands in that, you know, and I forgot about that, yeah, and, and I thought about that later because that was early in his life, but there was just things it, it just didn't. Um, that seemed like there was something wrong.
Speaker 1:Well, and I and I know that those aren't easy conversations, um conversations to have. So if and I know this is kind of a big one, but if there is a parent, a grandparent or somebody that is listening to this and they recognize some things in a child, a grandchild, a friend's child, a family member, do you have any advice on how to approach that conversation with the parent?
Speaker 3:Well, I can only share how I approached you and I. You had come over and I I asked you to please sit down, um, and I was, I was upset, I mean it wasn't easy and um, and I just said to you I, you know, I I'm not, I'm not a doctor, I don't but as a grandparent, I have some concerns and I just want to share them with you and um, and it is, it's so hard, but, like you said, that conversation did start the wheels rolling. I mean, it's hard for any parents and I know, in working with children, I know that there's been times when teachers have expressed concerns about a child and the parent just doesn't want to hear that. You know it's so hard. They don't want to think that there might be something wrong. You know that their child has a challenge. But I think, coming from a grandparent or you know someone in the family that sees it and loves that and, you know, expresses that concern, I think that can really help.
Speaker 1:I agree 100% and I and I know it is. It's nobody. Nobody wants to hear that there's certain things that their child will not experience in life, right, and some things that come with that. But you know I'm eternally grateful for you and for Dad, and you know the support of our family. This would have been a much harder trek trying to do it alone, and for that I can't even come close to thanking you enough.
Speaker 3:Oh well, it is our pleasure. We love Xander, you know that. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I know he he loves going to Grammy and pause, and that's for sure.
Speaker 3:Now, now, more pause. I think the kids like me when they're younger, but when they get older, then they're pause.
Speaker 2:For a little bit. Then they'll be back to Grammy, but watching the journey that he's been on and you guys have certainly been a huge part of that and a huge support for us and for Xander so can you talk a little bit about, like, what insights you've gained by watching the challenges and the triumphs that, as a family, we've all faced with Xander?
Speaker 3:Oh, my Xander is a success story. I hope that doesn't sound bad. It is amazing how far Xander has come. He was a little kid who wouldn't eat there, was hardly. I mean, he was very hard to control. Was hardly, I mean, he was very hard to control. And the thing is is once he got his diagnosis, it's like he had us I'll say us, meaning me and grandpa wrapped around his little finger because we thought, oh poor Xander, he doesn't, he has autism, he doesn't know what he's doing. Xander, he doesn't, he has autism, he doesn't know what he's doing.
Speaker 2:You know, oh, he knew, he knew he had a fracture. He didn't understand. He didn't know any better.
Speaker 3:It was something I mean. Jared has shared how he would bring him on family trips and would have to go home because Xander was so hard to keep near us, you know, and so until we went on a camping trip I think it was the first camping trip that we went on when Laura joined our family. Would you like me to share that? Oh?
Speaker 1:absolutely.
Speaker 3:Well, xander had us wrapped around his little finger, we had gone camping and we were all getting ready to leave the camper and Xander was told to put his shoes on. And Xander didn't want to put his shoes on and he was refusing. And finally Laura just very politely and nicely said well, everyone, please leave the camper and just leave Xander by herself. And so we did and we sat outside on the picnic table for, I would say, about 20 minutes, laura, maybe, maybe 30. But we would hear shoes hitting up against the door and you know, and I could tell by Laura's voice, she had her back up against the door, so Xander couldn't get out. And all of a sudden the door opened and Xander had his shoes on and he walked out.
Speaker 3:And that's when Paul and I knew this kid knows. This kid knows what he, you know. And it's been amazing, through the two of you raising Xander, what he is today. He went from some child that was so hard to control to now we can take him to youth group and he gets out of the car, he walks into the youth group, he knows to get his headphones, he enjoys his friends. It's his people, you know. And, and it's just amazing, he didn't eat. He didn't eat until he was what? Five years old. Now, when he comes to my house, I have have to make sure I have Dr Pepper Doritos and he does his own laundry. He's the only one of my grandkids that will put dishes in the dishwasher. This kid is amazing and I know it's because God has gifted y'all to work with him. And it's amazing what this young man is.
Speaker 2:I've definitely had a lot of help along the way. And talking about him being all over the place, we were just telling the story the other day about how he had us snowed at first too, because we didn't think that Xander could sit down and attend to any tasks until he went to an award ceremony and the little booger sat there for 30 minutes on crisscross applesauce in third grade listening to an award ceremony, and so you know we've talked about needing that tribe. So either we had the teachers okay, what are you doing? Same with getting him to eat at working with the teachers. What are you doing? Same with getting him to eat working with the teachers? What are you feeding him at school? So we can feed him at home and let's that first christmas break. No, we got to keep this going.
Speaker 2:And um and just and you know, john and michelle, that michelle, just so you know, took him on and when he was in elementary school to be able to be part of the church services and that's gone on to, like you said now, the youth group. Now he just drop him off and he goes when. Before we had to assign a teenager that was quick enough to chase him around the church. So yeah, we've definitely been. You know a bunch of us.
Speaker 2:It takes a village, doesn't it? It does.
Speaker 3:That's for sure. Well, I'm so grateful that y'all have had that village.
Speaker 1:So we were just having the conversation the other day of oh man, the story just left my head, Uh-oh, what was I about to say? It was a good story too. Oh well, if it comes back to me, I'll bring it back up. Okay, so let's see, we got some other questions here. Oh, this one right here.
Speaker 2:The second part.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. So with your time again, with your time in the school system and, of course, working with family members and so on, what are some things that you think schools could possibly do better to support students and families? And now there's. No, don't worry, you're not going to make anybody mad because we're not attacking anyone. But what ideas? What are some things that you think might would be, at the very least, a good thing to consider when working with families of children with special needs?
Speaker 3:I think what I see some breakdowns sometime is communication, communication between the parent, the teacher to the parent, the parent to the teacher, even the teacher to the counselor. I think it is so important to have good communication on what's going on. I don't think you can communicate too much on that. I think working what I've witnessed and this is sad to say, but a lot of times, especially before a diagnosis if a child comes in with special needs but they haven't gotten a diagnosis, if a child comes in with special needs but they haven't gotten a diagnosis, they just are considered having behavioral problems and I've witnessed kids almost being labeled and that's so sad. At one time an educator asked me if I would come in and observe a child and it didn't take me too long to see that this child had been labeled. I could tell by the way the children were talking to this kid. It's like they were just repeating what they heard their parents say. You know to this kid and I told the educator. I said I really believe that this little guy has been labeled and I'm afraid that happens a lot and it helps so much when there is a diagnosis because it's like people have more patience with kids when there's a diagnosis Later on in watching this child.
Speaker 3:That's another thing, especially nowadays because the classrooms are so large. But to really watch the kids and learn the kids, because the same little kid I was in a classroom with him like two years later and I learned that this little kid, he just wanted to be respected. If someone would take a toy from him he would haul off and hit him. But if I would have the other child say, why don't you go ask him if you can play with that toy? That little kid would just hand the toy over. It's just he wanted to be respected. He didn't want people, you know, taking things from them and everything. And I think if we, if the teachers and even the parents, can really watch the kids and learn how to help them, does that make sense.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. I mean, it really is counterintuitive. What you're talking about is counterintuitive to us as parents and as adults, where, you know, a lot of times we want kids to just do what we tell them to do, instead of let's learn the child, let's learn their thought process and their perspective.
Speaker 3:And sometimes that's hard because it's almost you almost feel like, well, if they don't do what I'm saying, I'm losing control. And that's not it at all. You need to learn that child, because they each learn differently and they, you know, things look different to different kids.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, Because you know all of their, all of their interactions, all of their experiences shape their perspective on how they view the world around them and we don't know all of those experiences and what has happened in their lives.
Speaker 2:Well, like you've said, jared, that we live in our own head, we only know what we know, we have only experienced what we've experienced, and so we don't know what they're necessarily going through. I mean, we can try to sympathize, we can try to empathize, but it's different and everybody has their own perspective based on what they've been through. And some of these little guys and gals have been through so much that, as children, I don't know if any of us would have been able to go through it. They're dealing with so much these days.
Speaker 3:And communicating with the parent too, the teacher communicating with the parent, the parent communicating with the teacher. You're learning this child together. You're helping, you know, to shape this child in the way he should go, you know, or she?
Speaker 2:Right, because we know that we've in conversations we've had with parents, you know, sometimes we'll say so-and-so, you know. So we celebrate some victories, oh, so they're doing this, they'll sit down in the chair for you. Well, absolutely. But then there's also times that we say, well, we're seeing this like. Oh well, we don't see this at home. And so, having these conversations, we can say so, what have you tried? Or we can say, well, we tried this, and so that definitely is is is key, is that that constant communication, yes and honest because we don't be honest about because we don't be honest about it.
Speaker 2:We don't judge, we just want to help your kid.
Speaker 1:Right, all right, mom, I've got one more question.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:And this is a big one.
Speaker 3:Oh no.
Speaker 1:No, not really it is a big one, but it's one that I know you will not have any issues answering whatsoever. So anybody that knows me even half decently knows that my dad is a pastor and has been a local pastor here. For golly, what's it been? 40 years. Does that sound right?
Speaker 3:Close to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and he's been doing the pastor thing and the preacher thing and you've been by his side. So what I do know is this One of the really great things and I think also one of the scary things about being the child of a preacher is that your children can rat you out. If you are not the real deal, they can burn you down. What I can say is that my parents are the real deal.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you dear what you hear preached and shared on Sunday. They live that life. It's real to them. So, mom, tell me, how would you describe to anyone listening the impact that God has had on your perspective when it comes to working with children and families?
Speaker 3:Oh, my Children are so special to Him, you know so special to Him and special to him. You know so special to him. And um, well, jared, you said that wasn't going to be a hard question. I think you know, just knowing, knowing Christ and um, and what he's done for me, um, the grace and the mercy he has shown me personally, that has helped me to show grace and mercy to adults, but also to these little kids who they're being, they're, they're growing and they're being molded and shaped and, um, they are so special to God.
Speaker 3:I just want to, I just want to love them, um, I want to show them unconditional love, just like God has shown, shown me love just like God has shown me. And there's nothing greater than watching, because, being in the preschool, I have seen children grow up and they have children now themselves, which is really wild. And it's so awesome to see that what God has allowed me to pour into children's lives. They have grown and they're pouring the love of Christ and godly principles into their children's lives and there's just, I don't think there's any greater reward than that.
Speaker 1:I love you Mom.
Speaker 3:I love you, mom. I love you, but I was afraid I was going to start crying there.
Speaker 2:Don't worry, we already have a couple of times on this side of the table.
Speaker 3:But it is. It's such a privilege to be able to work with kids and you know, I really didn't plan on it. I really didn't plan on working with children and that's been my heart and really my call through my whole life. Even now I'm still working with children and working with families who have special needs children and that's just a call that God's put in my heart and my life and he's equipped me, he's equipped my heart for that and I just, I love watching you and Laura just pour your hearts into kids and their families. Y'all have a ministry.
Speaker 2:I know Jared's often told people that you are a teacher who never had their own classroom per se, you know, and that it's definitely true. To watch you with the kids is really you're a natural and you just it just comes, you come by it and you just you know what they need. And um yeah, it's, it's really cool.
Speaker 1:Thanks, all right, mom. Well, I think we're going to wrap this up.
Speaker 3:Well, y'all were pretty nice, Thank you.
Speaker 1:We try our best.
Speaker 2:I was a little scared. Well, we're pretty nice. Thank you, we try our best. I was so scared. Well, we're glad you agreed to it.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, and again, I'm I'm honored that you would even ask me when they. When you first asked me, it was like why do I have to offer?
Speaker 1:Well, now, everybody knows Well, thank you. All right, mom, we'll talk to you later.
Speaker 3:Y'all get some rest. Bye, bye.